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Nibiru: V8's at Hidden Valley tonight
Nibiru: Practice tonight @ Magnificent Park for Fridays enduro
SmellySkidmark: FVR Enduro Tonight 8:30
Gussy: Wont make enduro tonight. Have fun People!!
SmellySkidmark: PM Rob
RudzAUS777: Great race last night, thank you ! Well done Bert, Kelv and SS
Bert: Great racing thx guys. Love enduros:)
Bert: Loving the new enduro pack, don’t think simx knows what to do with the new ffb for the GTE’s and LMP2 cars. I had shit coming off all around me even messed up the steering usb convertor. The GT3 pack is awesome too. VR detail wow
SmellySkidmark: Aussie Legends tonight @ Toban
SmellySkidmark: Aussie Legends server now has @ Zanvoort ...
Bert: And Mugello please, seems like it is the only thing I can practice for.
SmellySkidmark: Server 1 now has V8s @ Townsville
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Bert: Thx SS
KELVIN4TOR: pm ss
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SmellySkidmark: RF2 June roadmap «check this»
SmellySkidmark: Aussie Legends tonight
Bert: Whaaaaat 20% chance of rain?
SmellySkidmark: what where?
Bert: Hahaha Putnam Park says 20%rain
Bert: All good, Nib has it covered with working wipers
Nibiru: :D
Nibiru: Marulan racetrack gets a face lift and name change «check this»
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Nibiru: Thanks Bert
Gussy: rain rain rain at Putnam
SmellySkidmark: Great vid Gussy
SmellySkidmark: Goodwood festival of speed live stream «check this»
Obbzy: Found a 'Game Booster' mode on my Anti virus. Went on the Enduro server and it seemed ok?
Might have to get on when there are a few about & test to see if the connection holds... :)
SmellySkidmark: Good, I hope it's fixed m8
SmellySkidmark: Monday night in the Aussie Legends would be an excellent test night Obbzy
Obbzy: Discoed again last night/ :(
SmellySkidmark: Aussie Legends tonight, wet tyres required
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Car setup - long post!

  • RS2000
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7 years 10 months ago #1 by RS2000
RS2000 created the topic: Car setup - long post!
Hi team, after our quick car setup chat last night I thought I’d write out my whole setup procedure in case anyone’s feeling a bit lost, or just wants to compare their own process. If you’re doing anything different or you think I’ve missed something I’d love to hear about it. This process works for me, but everyone drives, and wants their car to drive, a little differently, so I can’t promise it’ll help you, but I hope it does :cheer:

Car Setup – here’s how I do it:

First of all there’s a couple of things I almost always change from the default setup. I generally move the brake bias forward 2 percent, I change the castor to 5-6 degrees and give the front wheels a little toe out and the rears a little toe in, and I also tweak the diff depending on the car. The brake change is a personal thing, I don’t like the rears to lock up when turning into a corner (I try to carry a little bit of brake into the corner, all the way to the apex if I can. This is easy in softer cars like Historix and almost impossible in stiffer stuff like WTCC and NAGT). The castor makes the steering want to self straighten, which has no real value in a game, but it is also a dynamic form of camber, so when you turn the wheel it adds negative camber. This is really useful as you only want camber in the turns, not the straights. The toe out on the front means the car is more eager to turn in, at the cost of a little straight line stability. The rear toe in helps control oversteer, especially under power. I use the diff to control what the car does into and out of turns, coast affects the car on the way in when you’re off the power (“coasting”) and power affects the car on the way out when you’re on the power. Each car (and driver) is different, but if the car is too loose or twitchy into corners, I increase the coast setting to lock the diff under coast, which makes the rear want to go straight (and not spin!). If the car is too loose on the power out of corners I reduce the power setting to let the inside wheel spin a little and reduce the oversteering effect. In a less powerful car I sometimes increase the power setting to give me more oversteer to help the car turn, and get through and out of the corner faster.

Next I do the tyres:

The most important factor in the car setup is the tyres, if you’re not using all of the tyre’s surface you’ll never be going as quick as you could be. I set up the tyres so that when they’re at racing temperature and pressure, the temperate is 5-7 degrees hotter on the inner edge than the outer edge, and the middle is between the inner and outer. I don’t care what the actual temperatures and pressures are, I only care that the temperature profile is correct. To do this I do at least 2 full laps, 4 if I can, then leave the track and go straight to the suspension setup and look at the temperatures. If the inner is not hotter than the outer by about 5-7 degrees (I don’t care about the middle yet) I increase the negative camber on that wheel. * I set each wheel up independently, so I don’t use symmetrical settings* After adjusting the camber I then adjust the tyre pressure a couple of points up if the middle is not between the inner and outer temp and is lower, or down if middle is not between the inner and outer temp and is higher (low tyre pressure causes the inner and outer edges of the tyre to be too hot, high tyre pressure bulges the tyre out and causes the middle to be too hot). The exact pressure change to get the middle temp correct is guesswork, I don’t know exactly how much the pressure needs to change to get it right, so I go out for some more laps and then come in and check it all again. Repeat until all the tyres have the correct temperature profile.

By this stage the setup is pretty good, and the times should be quick. Most of the time I’m happy with the car by now so don’t do any more. If I’m not happy with the balance the next thing I do is adjust the rear sway bar, increasing the size will make the car turn better but also oversteer more, reducing the rear sway bar will make the car turn a little less eagerly but be more stable and can also help with getting the power down out of turns. Increasing the front sway bar helps sharpen the car’s turning ability, but too much can make the car oversteer if the rear can’t hold on as strongly as the front.

After doing this, make sure to re-check your tyre temps and adjust as required.

If I’m still not happy (as I wasn’t last night in the NAGT Caddy with serious power oversteer headaches) I will adjust the springs and shocks, but I only do this if I have a problem driving the car, 95% of the time I never change them, they’re usually pretty good. Most o f the time I change these if I have the same problem I had last night, oversteer problems in a powerful car. I want to make the rear softer so that more weight transfers onto the back wheels under power (“squat”) to increase the load on the rear tyres, increasing their grip and also making the car less snappy or twitchy in the rear under power. In that case I will first reduce all the rear shock settings by one point, and if that doesn’t work I’ll reduce the spring rate by one click. Usually one adjustment is enough.

Again, after doing this, make sure to re-check your tyre temps and adjust as required.

If the car still isn’t right, the last thing I try is getting experimental with the sway bars, but I almost never need to try this as the car is usually shit hot by now. I might increase or decrease one all the way and try it out, then do the same with the other, then both, just to see what happens. If I stumble on a faster setting, or one that gives the same times but is easier to drive, then yahoo! If not, I haven’t lost anything.

Gearing and wings don’t need any explanation :cheer:

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7 years 10 months ago #2 by Gaboss
Gaboss replied the topic: Re:Car setup - long post!
Sensational summary of your process RS - Thanks a Million !! :kiss:

I have printed this out for reference while testing.

Setting up cars is in no way my strong point and this explanation adds to all of the great advice that I am slowly accumulating from the xfactor gang!!

Cheers
Gaboss
:cheer:

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  • RS2000
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7 years 10 months ago #3 by RS2000
RS2000 replied the topic: Re:Car setup - long post!
Oh shit, I didn't want you to get any quicker! :P

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7 years 10 months ago #4 by tasracer
tasracer replied the topic: Re:Car setup - long post!
Thanks RS a great explanation of the basics of car setup. My biggest problem is i never know what to start with, i will try your process and see how i go.

The man who smiles when things go wrong has already thought of someone to blame it on

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7 years 10 months ago #5 by Johnsxr8
Johnsxr8 replied the topic: Re:Car setup - long post!
Thanks heaps RS hopefully it might help me go quicker.

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  • LordOfTheRims
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7 years 10 months ago - 7 years 10 months ago #6 by LordOfTheRims
LordOfTheRims replied the topic: Re:Car setup - long post!
Nicely written RS, it explains a lot of the things I've worked out thru trial-'n-error without knowing the theory.

I agree totally with your castor, camber, toe-in/out and tyre set-ups but I came to slightly different conclusions regarding sway-bars and brake bias:

RS2000 wrote: .... increasing the rear sway bar will make the car turn better but also oversteer more, reducing the rear sway bar will make the car turn a little less eagerly.....

"Increasing the front sway bar helps sharpen the car’s turning ability....."


I find that you can increase oversteer by stiffening the rear OR softening the front and vice-versa if you want to decrease oversteer, and which one you adjust depends on whether you want more or less body-roll. Less body-roll(stiffer overall sway-bar settings) gives more direct steering but its at the expense of tyre-wear, also, loss of traction is more sudden.

I adjust springs and shocks to suit the surface-condition and elevation, i.e. bumpy tracks need more shock-absorber strength with dampers set so that the axles stop bouncing before the next bump comes along.(this theory is a WIP, I'm still grappling with it.)

Tracks with changes of level(up and down hills) need more spring tension to avoid bottoming the car out in the valleys between hills which not only costs speed but it can cancel the turning effect of the front wheels, e.g. the valley approaching the final corner at Oran Park, if you bottom-out there you usually end up going straight ahead into the wall. Also, when you're going over the crest of the hills the car gets light, and when it lands you want it to settle quickly.

I only make smallish changes to all the settings I mentioned because its easy to turn a perfectly good default set-up into a pig when the tyres aren't brand new any-more.

Brake-bias is trickier than it might seem. The two things you adjust it to correct are front wheel lock-up(no more steering, car goes straight ahead) and rear wheel lock-up(nose and tail swap ends). Even with good brake-bias settings those problems can occur if you brake too late and/or too much.

Generally I find fwd/awd cars need more rear bias than rwd cars to help them point into the corner whereas rwd need to maintain traction as you brake into the corner and power out.(fwd/awd cars want to go straight when you apply power so you want to have most of the steering done early so you can get the power down sooner.

Setting up the NissanGTR for Laguna was difficult because I wanted a bit of rear-bias to set up for the corners, but the crest approaching "the corkscrew" exaggerated the rear lock up, so I had to either start braking earlier or adjust the bias further forward.(I compromised with a little of each.)

As RS said, set-ups are a matter of personal preference and when you do your own you can drive accordingly. If you use someone else's you're not sure where its strengths and weaknesses are and your own s&w's may not match that set-up.

I hope my input helps at least one other driver, feel free to criticise if you think its all a load of crap. :silly:

"You win some, you lose some and you wreck some."
Last Edit: 7 years 10 months ago by LordOfTheRims.

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7 years 10 months ago #7 by Johnsxr8
Johnsxr8 replied the topic: Re:Car setup - long post!
I softened my roll bars in the skyline last nite after the first race to try and stop the front right from wearing and in seemed to work as i was at least getting an extra lap out of the two sets of tyres in the 40min race.

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7 years 10 months ago - 7 years 10 months ago #8 by RobZee
RobZee replied the topic: Re:Car setup - long post!
Found this on setups... a good read and useful!

Setups
Last Edit: 7 years 10 months ago by Nibiru.

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  • LordOfTheRims
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7 years 10 months ago #9 by LordOfTheRims
LordOfTheRims replied the topic: Re:Car setup - long post!
Nice 1 Robzee, thanks ;)

"You win some, you lose some and you wreck some."

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